France 2 Télévision broadcast an interview with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in its Tuesday evening newscast. The interview had been conducted the day before in Tehran by Renaud Bernard.
Bernard elicits one key element in the encounter -- Iran's desire to link the fate of Clothilde Reiss, a French lecturer accused of espionnage, to that of 'Iranian prisoners' in France -- and one outrageous comment indicative of the regime's shameless distortion of the facts -- French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner is 'responsible' for Neda's death.
But for the most part, Renaud Bernard blunders through an interview for which he seems ill-prepared. To be fair, France 2 had been informed that its journalist could meet with Ahmadinejad only 24 hours before the encounter took place. Most major newsrooms, however, have an Iran expert who can be dispatched to the scene within hours and can return with a solid report that does not make him look like a cub reporter at a local newspaper.
Bernard makes a wobbly start. In his first question he refers to 'the first round of the presidential election which you won with 63% of the vote,' apparently mistaking himself for the president of the Guardian Council or a UN election observer. He uses no qualifier like 'allegedly' or 'according to your Interior Ministry figures' as any journalist should, given the circumstances. With that introduction, Bernard's ensuing remark that 'a large portion of the population still contests the results' and believes that 'you [stole] the election' can now mean that 37% of Iranians are misguidedly protesting your victory and can you tell us what you think about this, Mr. President, Sir.
Perhaps this could be laid down to a poor choice of words, but a minute later he becomes a repeat offender as he gives a tally of victims 'since the June 12 election, which you won.' Why the repeated confirmation of Ahmadinejad's victory?
And what of the tally of victims advanced by Bernard? 36 dead, according to unnamed human rights organizations. The opposition committee investigating the deaths and abuse of protesters has compiled a provisional list of 72 people killed in the unrest and in prisons. The figure was regularly updated until the committee's offices were raided, documents were seized, and two key members -- Alireza Beheshti and Morteza Alviri -- were arrested. Bernard could and should have mentioned these facts.
But France 2's journalist seems a bit short of facts. The one dead protester he does name is Neda Agha Soltan, whom he mistakenly refers to as 'Neda Soltani'. And when he brings up last Friday's protests, which he erroneously says occurred four months after the election, he says that 25 to 30 people were arrested. Perhaps Mr. Bernard would be kind enough to divulge his independent sources because this figure seems to coincide with those released by the Iranian police.
Bernard moves onto foreign policy and Barack Obama's 'extended hand.' The France 2 journalist appears to have read news reports from before the disputed election, when President Obama did indeed engage in a more conciliatory approach towards Iran. But the situation has changed and neither the US, nor the EU, have even congratulated Ahmadinejad on his 'victory.' Bernard asks Ahmadinejad if he will respond positively to Obama's overtures, as if the matter is solely in the Iranian president's hands. Most analysts believe that Ahmadinejad is desperate to score a diplomatic coup and meet a US official in New York, anyone from Obama to Senator John Kerry, but that the American delegation is adamant in not even having a chance encounter in the UN's corridors. Obama has set an informal deadline of year's end for Iran to make substantive proposals or face harsher sanctions. Deputy Secretary of State James Steinberg told the Washington Post, 'We view it as a win-win proposition' for the US.
Ahmadinejad's tactic of diverting attention by denying the Holocaust pays off once again as Bernard devotes a quarter of his interview to this matter. The questions are predictable, the answers even more. Couldn't have Bernard said something like, 'Your shocking statements about the Holocaust have dismayed and disgusted the world. You keep saying that people should be able to research the historical fact of 6 million deaths. Is Iran willing to allow research to be conducted on the thousands of political prisoners killed in mass executions over just several months at the end of the 1980s, a historical fact that prompted Ayatollah Montazeri to give up his position as the next Supreme Leader by openly complaining to Ayatollah Khomeini?'
In one of the more interesting parts of the interview, Ahmadinejad seems to suggest that French citizen Clothilde Reiss's fate is linked to that of 'Iranian prisoners' in French jails. Not only does Bernard seem unaware of who Ahmadinejad is talking about (NB The most famous Iranian prisoner in France is Ali Vakili Rad, one of the assassins of former Prime Minister Shahpour Bakhtiar, who received a life sentence in 1994 and is up for parole this year. Bernard would have been aware of this had he followed Iran news and read an article in Le Figaro, published less than two weeks before his interview.), but he does not even ask Ahmadinejad whom he is alluding to. This would have been a much more appropriate question, instead of the breathless one he actually did voice: 'It sounds like you're imposing some form of blackmail!' Really?
Ahmadinejad appears to have gotten away with another song and dance -- a musical comedy/tragedy now entering its fifth year. When will interviewers learn? It's not as if they won't get out of there alive. On second thoughts...
The full interview can be viewed here.
France 2:
Mr. President, thank you for receiving us here, in your offices in central Tehran. Three days ago, demonstrations took place in Tehran and other cities. Four months after the first round of the presidential election which you won with 63% of the vote, a large portion of the population still contests this result. All the opposition leaders were also in the streets. Numerous other [protesting] voices can be heard. I have to ask you, Did you steal the election as the opposition claims?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
In Iran, there is freedom. Individuals can express their views. But there is the rule of law.
France 2:
And concerning the election...?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
The law applies to the elections as well. We have no problems. The people express their views and the law is applied. The Iranian government is the most legitimate in the region and the world.
France 2:
[French President] Nicolas Sarkozy says that Iranians deserve a better government than the current regime...
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
You mean Mr. Sarkozy is interfering in our domestic affairs? I also think that the French nation deserves better leaders. Mr. Sarkozy's anger holds no weight for us.
France 2:
Human rights organizations maintain that since the June 12 election which you won, 4,000 people have been arrested -- there were 25 to 30 arrests last Friday -- at least 36 people have died... Everyone recalls the images of young Neda being shot in the street. She has become an icon for this movement. There have allegedly been cases of rape and torture in prisons. You haven't said anything about this subject in the past four months.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
I have expressed myself. I have asked the judiciary to act more quickly and with greater precision. And the judiciary will do this. In Iran, anyone who is a criminal is punished according to the law, whether he is a police officer or someone who sets fire to private property in the streets.
France 2:
And the dead, the tortured...?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
We are sorry that some individuals incited people to riot. Ask that question of the Voice of America, the BBC, or the French Foreign Minister [Bernard Kouchner] who incited the people. We are sorry that some of our countrymen were ultimately hurt.
France 2:
You think that Bernard Kouchner is responsible for the events of the past four months? Bernard Kouchner is responsible for the death of Neda Soltani (sic)?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
Yes, he is also responsible.
France 2:
Tomorrow, you're flying to New York to attend the UN General Assembly. You're going to cross paths with US President Barack Obama, who has decided to extend his hand to Iran. Are you going to seize [this extended hand]?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
Our position is clear. We believe in talks, but within the framework of justice and respect. We are waiting to see Mr. Obama's behavior and actions.
France 2:
The IAEA considers that you have enriched enough uranium to produce an atomic weapon. You possess sufficiently powerful missiles to transport such a payload. You are able to produce an atomic bomb.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
The official report of the agency states that we have no reason or evidence to believe that Iran wants to move towards military nuclear applications.
France 2:
What do you think about Nicolas Sarkozy's tough stance towards Iran?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
Mr. Sarkozy is free to hold whatever position he wants, but we believe that he is seriously mistaken. He mustn't sacrifice France for the interests of others. We were interested in good relations with France, but we're not insisting on this. Mr. Sarkozy shouldn't think that the Iranian nation needs him.
France 2:
Concerning the nuclear issue, an Israeli official said today that the military option is still on the table.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
You mean that the Zionist regime has threatened Iran? So why is Mr. Sarkozy silent? I have to tell you that the Zionist regime is too small to threaten Iran. We don't even pay attention to its threats. We're able to fully defend ourselves and make anyone making threats regret their actions.
France 2:
You'll be sitting several seats away from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the UN. Will you be addressing him?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
We don't recognize the Zionist regime and we don't have any need to talk to him.
France 2:
The state of Israel was created after a tragedy, the Holocaust. The death of six million Jews. This weekend you once again referred to this tragedy as a myth. The world, and France in particular, was shocked.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
If the Holocaust is a historical fact, they should allow research on the topic. In conclusion, if such a thing occurred in Europe and European countries are responsible, why must the Palestinians pay? Why must they be killed? Why must they give up their land? Someone else has committed the crime, in some other place. Why don't you give them some French land? If the French government is so sorry for the Zionists, it should give them a part of France. Why doesn't it?
France 2:
A Frenchwoman has been held here since July 1. She is under house arrest at the French embassy. Her name is Clothilde Reiss and she is accused of espionage. She is awaiting a verdict. France considers her a university lecturer. Her father asked me to give you this book which she translated and has just been published in France. He's written you a letter. (reporter extends the book and letter, but Ahmadinejad does not take them) Can you and will you do something for her so that she can return to France and her family? (Ahmadinejad finally takes the book and letter).
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
I've asked the judiciary to accomodate her case as much as possible. But you should know that some Iranians have been languishing in French prisons for years. They also have families. Unfortunately we haven't witnessed any gesture on the part of France to help these prisoners.
France 2:
It sounds like you're imposing some form of blackmail. Clothilde Reiss against some Iranian prisoners held in France.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
If we were looking for a payoff, there would have been easier ways.
France 2:
Do you think she's a spy?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
I'm not a judge. The judge will decide, according to the law.
(End of interview.)
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